Why You Should Talk About Your Failures with Christina Nicholson

Christina Nicholson worked as a TV producer, reporter and anchor for more than a decade. The founder of Media Maven, a PR agency made up of former journalists. The host of the Become A Media Maven podcast and the founder of Podcast Clout, a podcast database that makes it easier for PR professionals to build podcast pitch lists, she’s been on TEDx stages and Lifetime TV, among many other places.

She’s also a truth teller extraordinaire. And in this episode, she told ALL the truths — about her greatest regrets, her biggest failures, that time she called her boss a sociopath and found herself out of a job and why it’s CRUCIAL to share about all your failures.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Anna: Well, so I’m talking to you, Christina, on the cusp of the release of your best-selling book. What is that like?

Christina: Oh my gosh, that sounds so cool when you say it like that.

Anna: It’s true.

Christina: No, it’s cool. It’s cool. I wouldn’t have been able to do it without you. I said that on my podcast. I did a couple of like, book launch, like podcasts, like behind the scenes where I’m self-publishing everything I did. And I said on there like, “Listen, if it wasn’t for Anna David’s course, I would have had no clue what to do.” And I was gonna overpay a company so much money to do it all for me. And I was not thrilled with them. I think I told you that story.

Anna: Yeah. Well, you showed me the proposal. And actually, I was like, this is so cheap compared to what we charge. Do it.

Christina: Yes.

Anna: And well, I’ll tell you, thank you so much for saying that about my course. Because I’m, hor- you know, incredibly honest, I will tell you listeners, nobody bought that course. Nobody buys my courses, period. And I gave it to you the way I’ve given it to, you know, all the people that were in my writing group. No one even took it. You may be the, no, I mean, like a few people. But it’s great, right? And you’re the only person…

Christina: Oh my gosh. It’s insane. It’s like, it reminds me of years ago. I did Pat Flynn’s Power Up Podcasting course. And it’s literally like, drag and drop. Like you tell me what to do. I go do it. Okay, cool. Now that’s done. Now on to the next thing. Like, I put off launching my book for so long, because I didn’t want to deal with like, the interior design. Like, I don’t know anything about that. Well, like, literally 10 minutes in your course that was figured out. I didn’t know, I couldn’t find anywhere all this searching for like how to use Canva to make the book cover and make all the spacing work. Okay, well, five minutes in your course that was dunzo. Like, it’s, it’s just wild how easy you make it. And then to think I was refunded by that company. I was going to pay them over $5,000. And thank goodness, the first thing they did was, was the book cover, because I saw the book cover and I was like, oh my gosh, if like they think this is like good and like bookshelf and a bookstore worthy, then I don’t want them to do the rest of the stuff. So we like ended our relationship, got the refund. And I was like, let me just do this myself. And I was shocked at how quick and easy it was to do myself. And it’s funny, because that’s what held me back from like pulling the trigger on self-publishing for the longest time. And I was making it out to be this big, hard thing, just based on my a) lack of knowledge and b) time searching the internet for stuff. And then it’s like, okay, Anna David just handed me this. And it took me less than a weekend to do it.

Anna: Well, bless you. You are a lot savvier than a lot of people. I mean, I’ll tell you even, sorry listener, I can’t believe we’re delving into this, in fact Christina, I’ll tell you afterwards. I can’t do a lot of it, which is why my team recorded the how to do a book cover on Canva. I don’t want to.

Christina: Anna yes you can, yes you can.

Anna: Kind of don’t want to (laughs.) But yeah, yes, the course does break it down. I have no idea why people don’t buy it. But I have, I’ve given up. And it’s actually apropos of topic because I would say launching courses has been one of my great failures. It is something, I count a failure is something I have tried over and over again and not succeeded at. And I’ve had, you know, I think a lot of us will have great successes. And we focus on the failures for some reason. So you have had great success in your career, what have some of your biggest failures been?

Christina: I mean, I don’t know if I would call it a biggest failure, but I’m in the same boat with you, where I, the most of my revenue comes from my agency where we totally do everything for our clients under the PR umbrella, like earning exposure to get you coverage. And I know a lot of people don’t have a budget for that. So let me create an online course. I have an online course that’s $997. I have a bootcamp that’s $37. Does it sell? Yes, but nowhere, the revenue is nowhere near where I want it to be. Like last month, at the end of every month, I track my metrics for everything. I think last month, I sold two bootcamps and two online courses. So I mean, I don’t want to say that’s a failure because there’s some people not selling anything, so I shouldn’t complain about two here and two there. However, I spend so much time trying in effort, just like I have a podcast once a week. I have a newsletter once a week. I am posting on social media at least once a day. When I say social media I mean LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. I am writing long blog posts on my website and putting those on Pinterest. Like there is no reason why I should not be selling more. But I’m not. And I think it is time, and I’ve been trying to do this since I think 2017-ish. So I think it’s time for me to have a come to Jesus conversation with myself, my business coach, and be like, okay, why is this not working? And what do I do next? Because at this point, it’s one of those things where like, it’s just there. I tell people about it. But I don’t want to do any more launches like I just did. I haven’t launched for a long time. But I just did an email launch for my $997 online course. And one person bought it from my email list. So I said, “Okay, next time I’ll do the boot camp, it’s just $37.” Like, that’s a no brainer. So let me try that. So I’m going to try that maybe around March 2024-ish. But judging on how that goes, it may just be a thing that’s there. If people follow me, they’ll see it. If they want it, they buy it. Like, I don’t want to spend any more time and energy on this, because I’m kind of just like, over the attempt.

Anna: And I, I mean, you’re preaching to the choir. It’s not really so much about the lack of revenue for me. It’s truly like a heartache. It’s like I poured my heart and soul into this, and it’s being met with total indifference. And from people who could so benefit from it. And I don’t know why. And then you see all the, sort of, Amy Porterfield–I love Amy Porterfield–then you see her and Jenna Kutcher, and I also love Pat Flynn. But they sort of talk like, “Oh, yeah, just create a course than a funnel.” And you know, millions pour in and that is simply not been my experience at all.

Christina: Yeah, it’s so hard. And I think it’s easy, it’s easy for them to say now because they have the audience and I feel like before they had the audience, maybe this industry was very different than it is now.

Anna: Exactly.

Christina: But I agree with you, like it frustrates me. I get people reaching out to me, like, “Hey, I want this, how can I work with you?” And I’m like, “Okay, well, what are your goals? And what is your budget? Okay, well, you can’t hire an agency.” But this is like the next best, best thing, because I’m telling you literally every single thing you need to do you have me in a private support community. And I’m like, oh, no, I don’t want to do it myself. But on the flip side, they don’t want to spend money to get it done. And it’s like, “Listen, I have everything to help you. Like, you will succeed with this if you implement, trust me.” And it’s like, so many people are either, “I don’t want to spend time” and “I don’t want to spend money.” So it’s like, okay, then don’t ask me for help. Like, I get frustrated.

Anna: I know. Me too. Me too. Because it’s like, the answer is right in front of you. It’s right here. So okay, so what are some of your other failures been?

Christina: I think, I don’t know if this would be considered a failure. I call it like, my biggest regret in life was not studying abroad when I was in college. Because I think if I did, I would be bilingual and I would be able to speak Spanish. I live in South Florida where it is like, super beneficial to speak Espanol. My mom is from Puerto Rico. But she married my dad who is from Ohio. I grew up in Ohio. So never really spoke Spanish. So I just do my Duolingo app every day, and hope it will make me a little bit better. My kids are in a bilingual school. So like, I’m trying to, like instill in them like, “Listen, you gotta learn this, learn it now. Don’t be like me, you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.” So I’m not thrilled that I don’t speak Spanish fluently. And okay, failures. I feel like, and this is something when I look at my goals, especially as we’re recording this, we’re towards the end of the year. When I look at my goals, it’s like, how do I spend my time? What do I enjoy doing? And where does my income come from? Like those three things, because I feel like as business owners, we get in this cycle of doing things. You start doing them for, for a goal. But then, because you’re supposed to be consistent and be patient, eventually you’re doing them for the sake of doing them. And you haven’t really stopped to think like, is this working? And I feel like I have a lot of those. So again, this is why I think it’s so important to be part of some kind of group or Mastermind or coaching program. Because I can turn there and I can be like, okay, look, these are the metrics which by the way, I used to track really well and then I stopped for years. And now at the end of every month I’m like, what are all my numbers for this last month because you really, I didn’t know that my podcast was not growing in listenership. I would go in there and I would peek at the numbers. But when I look at overall, month to month, this year, I’m down downloads. I had a month where I just repeated episodes, but I’m down downloads. And if I’m not growing my podcast, and if I don’t love doing it, then why am I doing it? You know? So if you look at it like that, my podcast is a failure. Do I show up and do it and is it amazing content? Yes. But is it growing? No. And podcasts are very hard to grow. The best way to grow a podcast is to be a guest on other podcasts. And for years, I have not taken the time to pitch myself to be a guest on other podcasts. In this regard, I’m not practicing what I preach. Because it is time consuming. And I just don’t do it like I used to. And you can have a very successful business being a guest on podcast and not having your own. I’ve gotten a lot of revenue growth, just by being a guest on podcast. But not so much by having my own. Just because podcasts are very hard to discover. So, you know, looking at numbers, my podcast is a failure. I mean, I have, you know, a few 100 people listening to every episode, which I don’t think is a failure. But when I look at what my goals are and I compare month after month after doing it for like five years. Some would say it’s a failure, and it’s time to stop.

Anna: It’s so interesting, because it’s, I have Alex Sanfilippo. I don’t know if you know him on, on my other podcast, and he said, “You know, if you had 300 people in an auditorium listening to you, you go, ‘Oh, my God, I’m such a success.’ But if you have 300 people listening to your podcast, it seems like a failure.” But I’m with you. What is a success? And also with things like podcasts, I think people lie about their download numbers so much, that it’s hard not to compare and despair and go, “Wait, why don’t I have that?” And, and, and I also do think the metrics on podcasting, it’s really hard to track because it’s not downloads. It’s that person who did hire your agency because they saw you had this podcast. And maybe they listened to three episodes, and they didn’t even tell you that they listened to them. So, so I, I am right there with you. And, and it’s why when my son was born, or even a few months before he was born, I started to look at. It’s like, I spend my time doing newsletters and podcasts, has my newsletter ever made me money? Never. Can I tell you a kind of crazy thing is I’ve never put my former clients and my current clients on any sort of newsletter, which is, everybody knows the best customer, the easiest customer to acquire is the one who’s already your customer. I have never tried to sell them anything. I went through, and I was like, “Well, I’m sure a lot of them are on my newsletter.” 90% of my clients had never signed up for my newsletter, which means they were happy to pay me 10s of 1000s of dollars without my, quote earning that trust. Whereas the people who open it every week and have for years have never paid a penny. And when I, you know, you said it so well, you get in this cycle of I do this and I’m that person who does it every week. And then you never, you can just be on that treadmill. And I sent out a newsletter last week where I said, “This is my last newsletter for now.” And the truth is, I think it’s going to be more successful. Because I think when I send a newsletter, people are going to always open it. Because they go, “I don’t hear from her every week.”

Christina: Yeah, I think I’m gonna do the same with my podcast, I think I’m, I’m just tweaking the way I do things. I’ve kind of turned into an SEO nerd. So I think, and that’s a reason why I would get my podcast transcribed and turn them into blog posts. But once a week, that’s a lot. And again, I’m not seeing the numbers. Give me like assurance that it’s working and keep doing it like that. So I think I might, at first I was like, “I’m just going to stop the podcast altogether.” But because it’s so easy to transcribe audio to text, I think I’m going to do maybe a once-a-month thing and go super deep on one topic like PR for law firms, and go super deep on everything I can on that topic. That’ll be the podcast for the month. That’ll be like the ultimate guide blog post. And then next month, listen for something new.

Anna: That is so genius. Because again, we listen to all the experts who are like, “You have to release every week you have to.” Aand maybe if you have 20,000 downloads an episode, you do need to release every week. But you’re right. The best, I’ll tell you, I have one solo podcast episode that I just, there was a big scandal in my industry. And I recorded once, everybody in my industry was chiming in about it. And I was like, “Well, I should do something but I feel weird. I don’t want it.” And so I recorded it. I had it transcribed. I put it out there. It’s gotten me four clients. This random thing that I didn’t even promote. So the transcript that, we put all the podcasts transcripts on medium. For some reason that one, it was what people were searching for and they found it. So I’m totally with you. So but okay, but let’s talk about so you made a huge transition from being an on-air personality to being an entrepreneur. Talk to me about that.

Christina: I mean, I don’t even want to do that, like that was never a plan. It was just, in TV news, it’s not a flexible kind of job. Like, you can’t air a rerun, you can’t take a day off. Like there’s going to be local TV news in every market every day. So after I had a couple of kids, and I didn’t have family nearby, I needed a more flexible schedule because my husband also had a job where holidays and weekends don’t matter. Because he was in the golf industry. People golf on holidays, people golf early in the morning, like you don’t have the, the banker’s hours or the typical office hours. So after I had my second child, I got a job at a local PR firm. And I was totally sweet talked into that job, I took a major pay cut, but was told you could work from anywhere, you could work any hours, as long as you get the job done, doesn’t even matter, which is totally true. However, he totally lied. And he turned into one of those crazy bosses that would like, watch the clock. If you were a minute late, he would lose his shit. If you left on time, he would lose his shit. Because if you left on time, then that meant you weren’t a team player. Like it was just beyond. So after six months, I told him that I Googled sociopath and he had all of the symptoms. And I found myself out of a job. So that’s how I started working as a service provider in public relations. I got on LinkedIn, and I got on Upwork, which I believe was called Elance, or oDesk, or something like that at the time. And I did work for like next to nothing. At one time, I had like 12 clients paying me like $500 a month, just because I feel like that’s what I had to do. Even though I had all of the expertise from working in TV news and then working at an agency for six months. I could do all of the servicing. But I clearly didn’t know how to run a business. And in addition to finding my own clients, I also would freelance for other PR agencies. And I would, I would help them with some work. So I will, just like ran myself like ragged for two years. And then I hired my first business coach. I learned a little bit more about business and contracts and how to pay a team. Which then I hired my first person and what I did–and I still do this today–I first of all, I don’t want employees, I don’t want the headache of employees, I don’t want to follow all the rules and regulations like that just gives me a headache. So I only hire independent contractors, and they get paid a percentage of what the client pays. So you do good work, you get more clients, you make more money. If I lose a client, then you’re going to lose little bit money because you’re not doing that work anymore. But I’m going to lose the money too because the client’s gone. I feel like it’s not only is it more fair, but there’s more of an incentive to deliver good work. And that’s also how I can guarantee I’m always profitable by breaking things up into these percentages. So I started doing that. I started with one person. And then depending on how many clients I have, I have a team of contractors and each of them have has their own niche, right. Like, I have one for experts who would be great for nonfiction authors. If you have a product, I have a publicist who’s great at ecommerce. So I have that. And then you know, in addition to that people will reach out and I’ll be like, “Oh, well, you don’t have a budget for this. But here’s my online course. And here’s my boot camp.” [inaudible] that’s always the downside. They’re like all, but I don’t want to do this myself. Like, okay, then hire a VA, get a VA to go through this and execute it for you. And then they’ll say, “Well, I can’t, I don’t have money to pay a VA.” Okay, well, if you don’t have money, and you’re a business owner, you got to spend a lot of time doing things. I can’t tell. I mean, I worked probably the first two, three years, I started my business seven days a week, maybe 10 to 12 hours a day.

Anna: Yeah.

Christina: And when you work from home, I mean, obviously nobody wants to do that. But I’m doing this from home, my family’s home, I have my laptop. I can take, you know, like little breaks here and there. But I was afraid to spend money. I also did not have a good money mindset. And it was actually hiring my first business coach putting $15,000 on a credit card, where I kind of got over that, because I was just like, I, I am going crazy. I don’t have consistent income, and I need consistent income because it’s making me stressed out. So I put that money on the credit card and I said I’m going to do every single thing I am told to do, because I don’t like wasting time and I don’t like wasting money and within six months, I had it all paid off. And then I like stepped up to the next program that was more intense and cost a little bit more money and ever since then–this was probably 2018–ever since then, I have never been without a business coach.

Anna: Wow. I am uncoachable. So unfortunately, I’ve tried it and it just doesn’t go well. It just doesn’t for me.

Christina: Well, it’s, you have to, listen this is what I look, look for and not just a business coach. So this is what I learned. I don’t just want to hire a business coach and have it be one on one with me and the coach because I want to be the dumbest person in the room. And I want there to be a lot of smart people in the room. So when it’s just one on one with a business coach, you don’t get that. You’re getting one perspective from one person. And this is what I always look at, is the, is the person like, who leads the group, is that person successful? Are their clients successful? And do they have a high retention rate? Like right now, I consider Jay Klaus my business coach, but he may not consider himself my business coach, he has a community. It’s called the Lab. And we have calls and I talk to other people and I meet other people in the group. There’s all kinds, it’s for creators. And there’s all kinds of different creators there. So it’s almost more like a, a good place to brainstorm and share goals and test things out and get ideas and build relationships, yada, yada, yada. But I feel like it’s so hard for me to just be on my own. But at this point, I’ve met enough people that I probably don’t need it. I think I just want it and maybe it’s a bit of FOMO. But like, if I had any publishing questions, like, I’ll just vox you or text you. If I have any questions about YouTube, you know, like, I’ll send my friend Amy Landino a note. Like, I think you just meet so many people through entrepreneurship, and maybe through these programs, that you kind of have that already. It’s just in a less formal sense.

Anna: Yeah, that’s true. And I’m in Masterminds. I am master-mindable.

Christina: See I consider them all the same type of thing. Like your Mastermind is probably it’s like, probably similar to what I’m in right now.

Anna: Yeah. Yeah. So and, so what other, what other tools have helped you find success or slash bounce back from failure? Business coaches, communities? What else?

Christina: Yeah, like, Masterminds are big because, and you just have to share and be vulnerable, like, don’t sleep on them, like don’t join them and not be active, because then you’re wasting your money.

Anna: Yep.

Christina: So you definitely want to be active. And don’t be afraid of looking dumb or whatever. Like, that’s exactly what they’re there for. I love that I’m actually measuring my, my numbers and stuff now. For the longest time I didn’t and now that I’m doing it, it’s like, “Okay, I can see what works and I can see what doesn’t work.” Because that’s ultimately how you decide what you double down on and what you stop doing. And for me, like looking at the numbers, my LinkedIn is growing, my email list is growing. So it’s like, okay, well, once that reaches a certain point, then maybe I could get sponsors on my email and my email newsletter. So then that’s another goal. So I think really tracking what works and what doesn’t is a good way to bounce back from failure. And then when you go to set goals, I love the 12-Week Year. This is a book and it’s so, it’s so good at like looking at, okay, like what are your long-term goals. And like one of my long-term like, like, my vision is like, I want to check my email and not have a lot of stuff in it. And I want the stuff in it to be relevant. Or I don’t want any calls. I want like a clear calendar. I’m still going to work but I’m going to do the work I feel like doing in that day. I used to be really big on like calendar blocking. And then after I had­–I don’t know if you’re feeling this now, Anna–but after I had my third child, I was like, screw this calendar blocking. I’m not doing this anymore. And it worked great when I had my first two, when I started my business. But after Dylan, I just didn’t want to do it anymore. So now, I mean I still love my calendar. Like if it’s not in the calendar, it’s not getting done. But I used to say like, “Okay at on this day at this time, I’m recording my podcast.” And I’ll still put some things like that in my calendar. But if I don’t feel like doing them, if I’m not in the mood at that day in time, then I’ll just move it. But I used to like, not never be in the mood. You know, I think my goals have just changed, I think, you know, like sometimes we fail at things, not because we’re not working hard or smart. But maybe it’s just because we’re not in it because our goals changed. Or we’re just in like this cycle of oh, I already did this so I’m supposed to do this. And I’m supposed to do this when it’s like is that really what I want now? Like maybe I used to want that but not so much anymore. So I think like maybe reevaluate what your goals are and why they are that way. So the thing I like about the 12-Week Year is you, like and do your long-term vision. And then it’s like okay, what’s your annual goal? How do we break that up into quarters and then from there to weeks and then from there to days. And then you get so deep and so specific on what you do, that you know you’re going after that goal because you actually want to hit it and enjoy hitting it. And then not just move the goalposts right when you hit it because next thing, next thing, next thing, and I feel like, like you mentioned Amy Porterfield and Jenna Kutcher. Like I feel like they’re very much into you hit this goal now I have to do this, now you have to do this now you have to do this. Like, like let’s just live and enjoy what we’re doing, enjoy the journey and not stress about all this bullshit that doesn’t really matter in the long run.

Anna: I mean, preaching to the choir, I want to ask you about the tracking. But also, before I forget, I want to say, you know, because I was thinking about that, like John Lee Dumas is the first person I learned about podcasting from. You know, he’s talked about when I was starting my podcast, I would have a whole day where I recorded podcast episodes, and I would go “I would not enjoy that.” I put so much energy into each interview that it would drain me. And I’m literally confused when people talk about that they blocked off their calendar to do emails or whatever that would make me feel so constrained. But I will say a lot of entrepreneurs do have a spectrum equality, where they have mastered how to do relationships, how to do work, and it’s very methodical, and it’s very organized. And, and other people–and I count you among them–just kind of organically know how to do these things. And you’re not studying a sort of, you know, personality test to decide, you know, how you’re going to handle somebody or doing things like that. Do you know what I mean?

Christina: Yeah, I’m not a big fan of those personality tests. I’ve taken like, so many, just because like, you know, there’s a time when everybody’s like, “Oh, are you this, that and the other?” So I’m like, I don’t know what I am. Let me see. I was like, okay, great. Like, what am I going to do with this? I’m not gonna do anything with this. Like, it’s just I, I, I don’t follow that. And I will say, I think a little bit of it is that I have become complacent. Because I, with, with just my, the way I treat money, I definitely live below my means. I probably spend as much as I save. So I can say like, I’m complacent. Like would it be nice to make more money? Yeah. But am I willing to do the work to make more money? A little. Like, would it be nice to have a body like Britney Spears in her I’m a Slave for You days? Yes. But am I willing to eat the way I have to eat and work out the way I have to eat to do that? No, I’m not. So I think like, I have changed in that way. Like, I used to be so obsessed with hitting goals and doing these things. And now, I’m just like, not. Now it’s more like, I want this lifestyle business. I don’t care so much about the bottom line. But again, like I have enough money in savings right now. And things in my agency are going well. So I’m in a position where I could care less. But it’s funny, because just today, as we record this, Jay, the person who leads the Mastermind I’m in, he sent out his, his revenue for each year. And he was like, “When I had a full-time job, and I stopped caring about the revenue from my business, that’s when it doubled. And that’s when I made more money.” And he was like, subconsciously, I think that this revenue growth was because I was focused on doing what I enjoy. And the money came by default. And I know when you need money, and like you’re all in on this thing, it’s hard to have that mindset because like, hello, we all need to pay our mortgage, we need to pay for this and that. But I think just approaching it in a different way. And I’ve tried that. And it’s funny, it’s like the, the money doesn’t even like change. Like my daughter–okay, here’s another here’s another analogy–my daughter played volleyball, and they played three games, you know, to win the, or three sets to win the whole game, whatever. If they lost the first two, they lost, but they would just play the third game because they had time and it was for practice. And it was like when that pressure was off, and they were just playing for fun into practice, they would always win. And it’s, it, it could be like a similar thing. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t know if it might. Am I making sense?

Anna: So much sense. But I have an opinion on this, I have an opinion on this. I feel very strongly about this. The universe does not know the difference between a wish and a fear. So if you are putting that out in a fearful way, “Oh my God, I’ve got to make $10,000 this month” I do believe you keep it at bay. And that’s why focusing on something else helps. I also believe that if you, you know, I have, I have a similar thing, which is I’ve had the same financial goal for the last two years. And I sort of think by magic I’m gonna hit it. We constantly have clients coming in, it sure seems like we’re doing well. And yet when I look at my numbers at the end of the year, I’m like, I didn’t hit it. And then I realized just a few weeks ago, if I want to hit it, I gotta say, we need to make this every month. So I need to add up what we’re going to make in January and February and go, we’re a long way from making that. How am I going to put money into that pot, but not approach it from a fear-based mentality? Do you know what I mean?

Christina: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that breaking down every month. That’s like, kinda like 12-Week Year-ish. And then I also I also read this was from Justin Welsh. Instead of making it a financial goal, which hello, we all do, like we, again, we have to make money, even if you’re a nonprofit, you have to have money. But instead of saying, you know, like, “I want to make a million dollars this year” say “I want to serve 96 clients this year” and then have, have the goal be the people goal and not the money goal. I haven’t done that just because it’s, I don’t know, I guess in my industry, it’s very different. But you can, you can change the wording of your goal to still have the same outcome you’re looking for, I guess.

Anna: I love that. And I love everything he puts out there. So okay. So if we’re going to wrap up your oh, oh, actually, before we do that, I wanted to delve into you also had this side hustle of sorts where you said, “Wait a minute, there’s this software that I wish exists doesn’t exist. I’m going to create it.” And then you created that and then you sold that? Would you consider that a success?

Christina: Yeah, oh, yeah. I mean, I totally would consider that a success. And I sold it because I wanted to like leave on a high note and not like, have it just fail. So there are in the P, and PR industry, there are software’s like Cision, Meltwater, Muck Rack where you can log in and get all the contact information for all the journalists in all the places, but nothing like that existed for podcasts. There were podcast databases. But there’s millions of podcasts out there. I don’t want to go through [inaudible] fast. I just wanted like, the currently top ranked podcasts in each category. And that didn’t exist. Like I wanted a heavy focus on quality, not quantity. And nobody was doing that. So I don’t know anything about tech or software. I, through my circles of networking, I talked and I asked questions, had it built and I started just like talking about it and partnerships, ads, all the things. But a couple of years in, I was just like, I am not into this, I just wanted to use this software. I don’t want to sell it. I don’t want to grow it, I don’t want to do like, and I even bought a course and joined a group and a community peo-, all these other people who were buying SaaS products, and I was doing everything they told me to do. But I didn’t want to do it. Like I was just like miserable doing it. And a lot of other competitors started coming out of the woodwork. Now they would also focus on quantity, not quality. So, so podcast clout was still a little different in that sense. But I, I wasn’t doing a lot. And it was slowly losing revenue month after month because I ignored it. So I said, “You know what, instead of letting this become a failure and just letting it die a slow death, let me just sell it now so I can get a lump sum of money and peace out.” And the guys who bought it, they actually bought it for a little less than what we agreed on. Because I am still 10% owner. And the reason they still wanted me to, to stay on board was like be an advisor because they’re not in the PR industry. They don’t have podcasts, they’re not podcast guests. So I’m there like as an advisor. And I do consider it a success because I created something. And I sold it and like again, that’s good money to put into savings and not be stressed because you have that like there just in case.

Anna: What kind of profit did you make? Can I ask?

Christina: Yeah, no, you can ask. Okay, so because it’s software, this is a thing, like you’re gonna be profitable. But at first, it’s expensive, because you have to create it all from nothing, but just maintaining it. It’s just paying like those monthly fees. You know what I mean? And then I had a great team of two guys in Kentucky that whenever somebody wanted something, or I needed help with anything, they would do it, and they would just charge me hourly. So I would say to be completely transparent. I probably spent around $10,000 total, to like, get it up and running. I don’t even know for sure I should have done a better job of tracking this in hindsight. And then I sold it for a little over $100,000. But the person who was like my business broker and found the buyer, he took $25,000 of that. And then I didn’t sell it for, you know, it was maybe like $135,000. But then it came down a little bit. I didn’t get it all because I’m still part owner. So when they start profiting, I get some of that. And then when they sell it, I get, you know, 10% of that.

Anna: Yeah, I’m using them Adopt the Web. You referred me to those guys.

Christina: Yes.

Anna: And I’m still it’s, it’s, you know, we’re taking a long time, but I created a website that I realized I didn’t know how to do the tech, and hopefully I’m gonna sell it. So you’re my model for that.

Christina: Yes.

Anna: So, so to wrap up your top three tips for bouncing back from failure. This is what Christina Nicholson of Media Maven says are the top three tips for bouncing back from failure? What are they?

Christina: One, nobody gives a shit if you fail, you’re the only one who really cares. Nobody even notices or knows if you fail. So like, I feel like so many people are like, “Oh, I’m embarrassed, I’m a failure.” Nobody gives a shit. Nobody’s paying attention. On to the next. Okay, so that’s like one thing, don’t be embarrassed, we all fail, it’s the best way to learn. So that’s number one tip, don’t give a shit and learn from it (laughs). That’s a terrible tip. That’s what comes to mind.

Anna: No, I love it.

Christina: Number two, look at why, why did I fail? Was it me? Was it something else? If I did this again, what would I do differently, like analyze it, don’t just move on to the next without analyzing it, because that’s where the learning comes into play. And then number three, I am a big fan of sharing it. Like there’s this trendy thing now people are doing where they build in public. And I love it. Because I love seeing things in real time. Because I find that on the internet, all people do is they build and then they share their successes. They never build and share their failure. And I feel like those are such good stories that people want to hear. And I feel like when you build in public, you’re doing that not knowing if it’s going to be a failure or success. I subscribed to this newsletter. This guy, his goal was in one year to build a website. And then his, his budget was $20,000. And at the end, he was going to sell it for like $250,000 just based on traffic and email list. And every single month he sent an update and he said these are my numbers, this is what I’m doing, this is where I’m going, this is what I learned. And it was amazing. And at the end of that year, he was like, he was like, I can’t sell it. I didn’t hit my goal. Like there’s no way it’s worth this. And this is why, but I’m still going to do XYZ and I just thought it was so amazing. I looked forward to those emails every month. Because like it was just so fascinating to me to hear what he was doing and what was working and what wasn’t working. So please share your failures. And don’t be afraid to build in public because trust me, when you fail, nobody’s going to notice and if they do notice, nobody’s gonna give a shit like this guy. He said I didn’t make it. You know, do you think I was like, “Oh my God, what a failure, you suck.” I was like, “Oh, okay, cool.” I kept reading. What did he learn? What’s he doing now? Like, I’d never even thought of that for a second. So those are my three tips.

Anna: I love it. I love it, Christina. If people want to find out more about you, where should they go?

Christina: Well, you can find me Become a Media Maven is like, the name of everything. That’s my newsletter. That’s my podcast. That’s my book. So if you go to become a media maven dot com, (becomeamediamaven.com) you can see my website and all of the things there. And then on social media, I am at Christina all day (@christinaallday).

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